The Razzball Hoops Pod returns after a week off, and on today’s show we talk the Jonas Valanciunas extension and the impact on the Rap’s big men, then spend the rest of the show talking the Yahoo O-Ranks as fantasy leagues open up, and rip them to smithereens.

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  1. CTMN says:
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    I agree with Slim about the Raps small ball. They signed Carroll with the intention of playing him at the 4, and there were even rumors earlier about him starting at the 4 if the Raps had signed Wes Matthews to play the 2 or 3. Also, Patterson and Valanciunas were the Raptors worst defensive combination by +/-, per 100 possessions, etc. last season.

    • CTMN says:
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      @CTMN: I don’t think Biyombo will play as much as Slim does though. I think around 18-20 minutes

      • JB Gilpin

        JB Gilpin says:
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        @CTMN: Yeah I was mostly going against his high minutes outlook for Biyombo. I dunno, I just think Carroll is so small for a 4, especially with Patterson and J Johnson both capable there.

        I wonder if that +/- had more to do with Valanciunas just being so bad on D haha, and Amir is obviously better on D than PitPat, what other combos could there have really been a big enough sample of at the 4/5? I’m not saying Patterson is a great or even good defender, but hes OK

        • CTMN says:
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          @JB Gilpin: Idk, seems like Patterson might even still come off the bench: http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/07/28/patrick-patterson-should-start-at-power-forward/
          The combo of Jonas/Patterson wasn’t just bad on defense, it was REALLY bad (“The Raptors conceded a defensive rating of 109.9 when the two shared the court last season, per NBA WOWY. That mark would have ranked dead-last in the NBA, barely nudging out the Minnesota Timberwolves who posted a 109.6 defensive rating.”)
          I heard this being talked about a lot by Raps writers last year, so it just makes me think that maybe he won’t play more minutes than last year. Not that a guy like Patterson would make a huge difference in fantasy anyway.

          • JB Gilpin

            JB Gilpin says:
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            @CTMN: Hmmmm good stuff there… I really don’t know the best fix, I really REALLY don’t think they should start Carroll at the 4. Patterson has a boring, but metrics friendly game though. He’s still draftable for me, for now. Certainly worth watching close in pre-season

            • CTMN says:
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              @JB Gilpin: Yeah at the end of the day not a big deal anyway…just late round guys.

              • JB Gilpin

                JB Gilpin says:
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                @CTMN: Hah yeah for sure. Maybe I’m just trying to convince myself Patterson in our 20 team league is gonna be pretty good. At least there’s a slightly more optimistic outlook. He’s great in 20 team either way really though, for low-end consistency with no TO

                • CTMN says:
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                  @JB Gilpin: Oh for sure…I just don’t play in any 20 team leagues lol

  2. Dante Green says:
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    So the Heat are planning to let Whiteside play only 20-ish minutes a game? WTF

    • JB Gilpin

      JB Gilpin says:
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      @Dante Green: Hah yeah just saw that quote. I think it’s a little misleading – he’s saying Hassan will be 20-25 only again full small ball lineups. I’m not too worried about it I think he’s a 28-30 mpg player as it is

    • Slim

      Slim says:
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      @Dante Green: Yep. I’m not terribly surprised and at this point like half the league is going to run small ball lineups pretty regularly (MIA being one of them if you count Bosh at center a small ball lineup). The 28 min per game as a starter last year is probably his ceiling. And ya know, a healthy McBob is going to play. Not major minutes but he will have a sizeable role. With all that said I’m not moving off my 28 min/game projection. But if you are expecting more than last year I think you will be disappointed. I’d still rather have Favors but I’m biased apparently.

  3. Stro

    Dan says:
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    Gday from Aus.

    8-cat league got pick 12 in a snake draft. Think Thompson & either Kawhi or Marc G at 12-13 & then two PGs at 36-37 maybe teague conley. is Wiggins still a steal at 36 in 8 cat though?

  4. Slim

    Slim says:
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    @Dan. The spam filter got ya but I see it. So 8-cat pick 12. We’re assuming Wall and Lillard are gone cause they are definitely top 10 in 8cat. After that… Kawhi vs Klay. Meh, I’ll go big/big and take Millsap/Gobert and look for 2 PGs at 36/37. Bledsoe would be my top option. Then Lowry or Teague. Wiggins at 36 is all good in any format but if you go big/big then you should really be looking for PGs, esp in 8cat since PGs are high TO guys which doesn’t matter to you and waiting till 60 for a 2nd PG feels too risky to me.

    If you decide to go Wing(Klay/Kawhi)/Big with the 1st/2nd then you still should be looking PG/PG in the 3rd/4th. I know Yahoo ranks say you can get Reggie at pick 100 but there is no chance of that in a competitive league. Esp in 8cat where PGs by far carry the most value.

    I guess you could go with Kyrie at 12 but considering his injury and now with a capable backup in Mo Williams it feels a bit risky. It would however open up that pick 36 or 37 for a wing like Wiggins or Hayward.

    • JB Gilpin

      JB Gilpin says:
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      @Dan: @Slim: What’s up man!? Love Australia can’t wait to go back.

      I def like Wiggins at 36. The earlier pick though, Klay and Kawhi are much better in 9-cat. I am probably going somewhere else. I’m with Slim in his analysis, def hoping Wall somehow falls to that 12/13… Damn in 8-cat that pick is def a tough one with PG drying up fast after the first round.

      Thanks for dropping by!

      • Stro

        Stro says:
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        @JB Gilpin:

        Thanks for your prompt response you guys do a great job. Wish I was playing 9cat as your info would be more helpful.

        As per basketball ninja Kawhi was 10 and Klay 12 on per game in 8 cat. We trade a lot in our leagues so I could flip them relatively easily. I agree that I need bigs and pgs early but it also helps having klay/kawhi in that my fg 3s ft stls start off strong and I’m able to absorb some people who lack in that cat. Hypothetically if I got Drummond or Whiteside and Jackson at 36/37 they deficiencies are eliminated by klay and kawhi. Also Payton could suit at a later pick if I can have my %s clean.

        I had 12 last year and it really is tough to win it from there so you need to be bold and gamble a lot more. For arguments sake I couldn’t trade my klay/kawhi 12-13 for someone’s curry harden davis 1-3 shows the advantage of an early selection

        • JB Gilpin

          JB Gilpin says:
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          @Stro: Thanks man, we try!

          Yeah it’s tough to have detailed info on all the cats without a big full-time staff haha. That’s what she said!

          Wow, surprised they were that high in 8 cat. They came out the same on Basketball Monster. I’d be fine with Kawhi that high, but I don’t think I’d get Klay there.

          Yeah it`s tough to win with a late pick, but this year especially and especially in 8 cat. Not enough high TO guys to fall to 12. How’d you end up with the 12th pick? i would demand a recount!

          • Stro

            Stromile Swift says:
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            @JB Gilpin: Yeah I wouldn’t mind doing some stuff for 8cat if you guys wanted a hand.

            I don’t see what is wrong with Klay there if he was 12 last year nothing seems like it will regress this year. Not injury prone either.

            The top 10 is quite easy in 8cat with Davis,Harden,Curry,Durant,Cousins, Westbrook,Paul,Wall,Lebron,Lillard. I’ve got no idea who goes at 11 though. If kawhi is gone there you guys would still go big/big?

            Was absolutely stitched up, we tried a draft lottery this year same as nba. The guy who won had only one ping pong ball and ended up getting 2nd pick. I came second and only had two balls and got pick 12. What a disaster. Who are some eight cat guys that you expect big things out of?

            Also how do I get in a league with you guys I want to try out 9 cat.

            • JB Gilpin

              JB Gilpin says:
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              @Stromile Swift: Cool, yeah we’re def looking for more contributors, I’ll shoot ya an e-mail to your commenter e-mail.

              I guess nothing is wrong with Klay, I do worry a tad about minutes and late DNPs. I know Kerr didn’t ease off the throttle much last year, but after a lengthy championship run, maybe he does this year being from the Spurs system.

              Agree with those top 10. Set in stone.

              Eesh sucks about your lottery! Let’s see, Wroten could be a good sleeper, I think they tell him he can’t shoot 3s if he starts. Def bad FT% still though, but FG% could be passable. Love Rubio still. Bledsoe is gonna be a monster in 8cat.

              Our RCL leagues (Razzball Commenter Leagues) will be launching probably on Monday. It’ll be the lead post with a very easy sign up – just click a link to join an open league, or you can commish one. Last year we had 12 12ers, def hoping to get up to 20 this year.

              Thanks for dropping by man, loved Swift back in the day! Awesome dunks Hah

  5. patrick says:
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    DUDE! i had to sleep at O’Hare as well because they had 1 security check open for about 300 people and half missed their flight. you’d think such a well known airport would have their shit together.

    excited about the season guys, good pod as usual, looking forward to killing it given some of these ranks

    • JB Gilpin

      JB Gilpin says:
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      @patrick: Hahaha damn that blows! Yeah O’Hare is awful, I connected through there, and after a few hours of delay just cancelled my connection. Next flight was like 6 AM and it was midnight by then, so I just stayed there. Yikes.

      Thanks for listening man! Yeah we’ll have our RCLs up early next week, and def have some leagues drafting early through these awful ranks haha

  6. CTMN says:
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    Btw is there a link to yahoo’s rankings? I couldn’t actually find an “official” list…

    • JB Gilpin

      JB Gilpin says:
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      @CTMN: Ummm, I don’t know any other way than looking at “All Players” in a league. Our dynasty relaunched, so I could see them all.

      The REL is publicly viewable, maybe you can see them all like we can through this link?

      http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/969/players

  7. real_cigs says:
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    Hey Razzball.

    Hoping you can help with a little strategy guidance. I joined a crazy 30 team dynasty league with salary cap, contracts, etc. It’s an h2h points league where you start 7 players daily (2 util) with 12 roster slots. Top 3 players score about 50 points per game, top 10 ends at 42, top 25 ends at 37. In your opinion, in a league this deep, is it better to have a few top end guys or to have depth across your team? I’m mulling over a trade for Whiteside and Rozier who will likely be 40+ points in this scoring, but would be giving up Brandon Knight (31 pts), PJ Tucker (24), and Donatus Motiejunas (24) all on great to reasonable contracts. I think all 3 will put up better numbers than last year and are developing. (probably trading Tucker at some point to a contender for a first rounder or project player)

    My current team before free agency (I have enough cap for one decent player and very small contract guys); Bledsoe, Knight, Gallinari, Tucker, Justise Winslow, Kieff Morris, Leuer, Motiejunas, Len. So I feel like it’s a deep team with several guys who could develop to be above average.

    • CTMN says:
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      @real_cigs: I’m definitely no expert on anything like this kind of league but IMO keep those 3, I mean, Whiteside will probably get paid $80 million for 4 years because even if only 1 team will do that, it only takes 1 to set the market. I don’t think Rozier will really pan out, they already have Smart/IT2/Bradley and all of them are pretty young. This league sounds kind of insane but in a fun way lol

      • JB Gilpin

        JB Gilpin says:
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        @real_cigs: @CTMN: Whoa sick man! A little envious, that sounds pretty fun.

        Well it looks like you already have the core of a team that is more depth across the board. My REL team (20 team) was kinda built that way along with good youth, and I think I’m entering with my best team in this our third season.

        Agree with CTMN, it certainly is a one-and-done year for Whiteside on his crazy low contract, so if your sal cap works off real NBA sal caps, that trade down the road isn’t look as pretty. I think I’d hold off, Knight has some upside for a few more Pts and the Heat have said they’re not gonna run Whiteside a ton of minutes, especially vs. small ball lineups. I have Whiteside actually in REL at $1 keeper for life, but I might try and sell as the NBA is going away from the huge centers and he’s a little older than your normal rook too

        • real_cigs says:
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          @JB Gilpin:

          Thanks for the help. I think I’m going to back away from the trade. The league was crazy overwhelming to start. Everyone’s been excited but with nothing actually going on, so there’s been a ton of trades going around. I saw how high you guys were on Gallo and went for him right away. His contract isn’t great for this league, but I managed to get him for Marcus Morris and a 2nd. Donuts cost me TJ Warren. And then I traded up 2 spots in the rookie draft for Winslow. I feel pretty good about all of those so far.

          Your strategy pretty much exactly what I was thinking. With a team as young as mine, I should develop and try and win in 3 years or so when Bledsoe is really in his prime. I’m hoping I can just fill in the roster around these guys and maybe that will be enough if they keep getting better.

          The sal cap uses real contracts until they expire, then players are in RFA or FA for the highest bidder with no maxes. There are 3 re-sign options you can use every 4 years, but those will sign your player to half the fantasy points they earn, so 40+ still is a 20+ contract.

      • real_cigs says:
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        @CTMN:

        Thanks for the help. I think I’m backing away from the trade. Our league starts off with real contracts, but once they run out, then it turns into a highest bidder situation for both restricted free agency and regular FA with no maxes. I agree that Whiteside will get paid IRL. I could use a re-sign tag on him for our league, but it would still end up paying him half of his fantasy points, so likely 20+ anyway. I’m also concerned with his attitude he ends up out of the league like Bynum or Sanders.

        This is the first season for it, so it’s especially crazy. Everyone has been really active moving pieces around to diversify their roster, rebuild, contend etc. But I think a lot of it is just people are excited about the league and want stuff to happen so they are trading just for the sake of it. Hard not to get caught up, haha.

        • JB Gilpin

          JB Gilpin says:
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          @real_cigs: Gotcha, def agree on the trade, and yeah I see how Gallo’s deal isn’t too friendly long-term for ya in that league. But for now, your depth might win out.

          Def keep us up to date on that league, sounds awesome!

          • real_cigs says:
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            @JB Gilpin: I’ve been negotiating with the other owner and talked him back to Knight, Tucker, and a 2016 first rd pick (should be mid to late round with my team in a weak class) for Whiteside. I think if he accepts that, I’ll make the trade. I keep more of my young talent with D-Mo then, and it’s hard to pass up the chance to get a possible top 10 player to pair with Bledsoe. It’ll be tough but possible to get Whiteside, D-Mo, and Gallo all re-signed, but that’s good problems to have.

            With Gallo, our league technically started on July 1st, so everyone who was a free agent is still one, and Gallo is an 11 mil expiring at this point instead of getting his 17m extension. We also had a free drop period at the beginning of the league to let teams out of bad contracts and release as many players as they want without penalty. So basically everyone has cap space and there are more FA’s than there probably ever will be. That starts tomorrow and it’s going to be a mad house. haha.

            • JB Gilpin

              JB Gilpin says:
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              @real_cigs: Wow, yeah that def is a win-now trade. Would hate giving up Knight, but since you can retain Whiteside it’s interesting. As long as that pick isn’t too high, yeah that should be a solid move.

              Oh nice! Love Gallo on a better deal. Good luck in the FA market man!

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